Presidential Run Approaching Finish Line

To update on the ol' Presidential Run from Chrome Cassandra's news feed:

Yeats will be in Seattle and holding a rally on January 28th.

Vogel, in what looks to be a last ditch effort will follow close behind with a rally at the Superdome on Feb 10th.

The Big D himself will be gracing the Metroplex soon after with a rally on Feb 18th.

Voting Day is Feb 26th, so if you've got a SIN, go out and vote!

Do any of the presidential candidates have a particular standpoint or view on the chicago situation? I for one would like to vote for someone who has a plan for getting rid of the bugs. And the VITAS too for that matter if it ever existed within the containment zone.

So, is the race close? And how important is Seattle as a voting block? I know Seattle is big but I'm trying to get a feeling as to how big compared to other voting cities and the voting population at large. Or is it influential for other reasons?

It's been a while since I've talked to anyone with a SIN. Does the UCS still have an electorial college?

Do Ghouls get to vote?

To answer Drifter's questions:

1. Yes, the race has been relatively close, especially considering that six candidates are running with roughly equal chances of winning, there is much division. Though there are some clear front runners: Dunkelzhan, Yeats, and Brackhaven with Vogel only slightly behind. Vogel has actually been making a comeback after the recent revelations about Brackhaven's past. Still, though Brackhaven's approval took a dip, it has actually been regaining lost ground. He has some surprisingly staunch supporters.

2. Seattle is a big player in the voting due to it's sheer population density and importance as an economic and political melting pot. As a primary neutral ground, Seattle can often control the swing vote.

3. Seattle's population is far more dense than in most places in the UCAS. Remember that the Seattle Metroplex, though only covering the surface area of perhaps 6 or 7 traditional cities, it contains the living breathing bodies (or the descendents thereof) of at least five entire STATES. The majority of peoples from what was Washington, Nevada, Oregon, Arizona, Colorado, and more poured into Seattle when the Native American Nations took over and ordered non-Native Americans off.

4. Yes. the UCAS still has an electoral college. They are still divided by state and state population... but as you know the map has been redrawn a few times since the time of the founding fathers and thus balances have shifted.

sparky wrote:Do Ghouls get to vote?

A better question would be: "Do ghouls have rights?" or even better, "Are ghouls acknowledged as being human?"

The answer is no. Ghouls were legally seen as a part of Metahumanity for all of several months when "Special Order 162" passed in Chicago. But after all the hubub and brouhaha at the Cabrini Refuge, Special Order 162 got repealed and the ghouls were left to rot... literally.

Awakened rights has actually been a top item of debate. There's a big movement to get Sasquatches, Free Spirits, and Ghouls equal rights. Heck of an uphill battle if you ask me... but then it wouldn't be fun if it wasn't a challenge.

Outlaw wrote:Do any of the presidential candidates have a particular standpoint or view on the chicago situation? I for one would like to vote for someone who has a plan for getting rid of the bugs. And the VITAS too for that matter if it ever existed within the containment zone.

Well, Yeats had the strongest plan for getting the bugs out... but now he's gone. The man was FROM Chicago and was very gung ho about "saving it from outside forces." It's too bad really.

Dunkelzhan has cautioned the world at large about the bugs and seems to know a fair bit. But even HE doesn't seem to know what to do about them. Kinda scary eh? A dragon not knowing what to do. Well I shouldn't say that, I'm sure he's got a plan up the scaly sleeve, and who better to deal with a magical threat than a magical President?

The rest, well, the anti-awakened candidates are playing the blame game and saying that Bug City is the kind of thing you can expect when you let "magic and freaks" run around loose. Yeah I'm looking at you Brackhaven.

The bottom line is, there is no plan to get rid of them. Not enough is known, and the government types just look at the situation and then pretend its not there. They don't understand it, so it must not exist right?

If running has taught me anything, it's don't f*ck with a dragon. Even if he doesn't win, I get the feeling that the winner might wish he had. Wouldn't surprise me if he was behind a lot of this stuff -- the bugs, the murders, etc.

So ghouls, ghosts, vampires, yeti, saquash, and the Loch Ness Monster all can't vote. Who can? And where are the borders again?

So Tir-na-nog and the Indian nations are out as they broke from the UCAS. The Free State of California is out too. But all elfs, orks, trolls, mages, adepts, etc. with SIN living in the Seattle metroplex are in? What about the Barrens and Glow City? Do those guys vote?

What about dragons? Clearly DZ is considered natural born or else they've change the rules since I last looked. Does he get to vote? If so then being human or meta-human is not the criteria. What about awakened animals or, I don't know, tree-ents or something? I'd like to know on what grounds, then, they ban ghouls, vampires, banshees, etc. After all they don't ban people with cancer, Alzheimer’s, or syphilis do they?

Where are we going anywhere as a nation? Actually, I'm surprised Seattle still has anything to do with it. Why aren't we the Free City-State of Seattle? Do the people of this city have anything at all in common with the bulk of the population in the UCAS?

Theoretically, anyone with a SIN and is a citizen of the UCAS gets to vote. Metatype doesn't technically matter because orks, elves, dwarves and trolls are all recognized as human beings under the law. If one lives in the barrens or glow city, it is unlikely that they have SINs. But if they have a SIN, yes they can vote. A dragon, like Dunkelzahn can vote if they are a citizen. Dunkelzahn has UCAS citizenship. He applied for it soon after awakening. DZ has also fulfilled the residency requirements by maintaining a home on Prince Edward Island. Dunkelzahn did also awaken within the UCAS borders... so he may indeed count as natural born.

Awakened animals are not recognized as humans; they are stil animals.

As for the HMHVV sufferers... well that IS the question isn't it? Just because they are infected are they not still human? Some say no. The disease actually CHANGES DNA from what I hear, so there is some scientific basis.

The question of Seattle independence? Not the first time it has been raised. With enough push in the right direction, it is possible. But Seattle is too important to the rest of the UCAS for it to be given up without a fight. It will be a violent time indeed if Seattle ever truly wishes to part ways with the rest of the country.

So an awakened animal is still an animal but Dankelzahn is not? What makes him human? So he maintained residence and woke up here. So did this leopard girl I met in a bar last week. Could she apply for citizenship and run for president too? Or do they only allow really big and scary non-humans run for president?

I was under the impression that the transformation to elf or troll or ork also changed your DNA. Fact or fiction?

Either way, there are plenty of viral diseases that change your DNA and have been since even before the world went kafooy. I don't recall that a DNA test was required at the voting booth looking for any of those.

I don't know what to do with this world any more than the next guy but I can smell hypocrisy from between planets. And the one thing I do know is hypocrisy means corruption and injustice every time.

Chromed Accountant wrote: The disease actually CHANGES DNA from what I hear, so there is some scientific basis.

I believe that humans change DNA every time they have a baby yet somehow they keep coming out human.

On an entirely different note: I was going to say, "That's no more scientific than Big-Foot," but then remembered that Sasquatch are real. Then I was going to say "ghosts" but remembered that ghosts are real too. Fairies, trolls, dryads, spirits, unicorns, harpies, Cyclops, Easter bunny... Is there anything that we know doesn't exist that I can say isn't scientific? I've lost track.

"...with liberty and justice for all..."

It's an ironic joke that these words would be in the pledge of allegiance, especially all lined up next to each other like that.
Voting is not now, nor has ever been for Everyone that you, oh liberal Drifter, might count as a "person"
Here is a timeline of voting rights for the fair nation in question

1790 Only white male adult property-owners have the right to vote.
1810 Last religious prerequisite for voting is eliminated.
1850 Property ownership and tax requirements eliminated by 1850. Almost all adult white males could vote.
1855 Connecticut adopts the nation's first literacy test for voting. Massachusetts follows suit in 1857. The tests were implemented to discriminate against Irish-Catholic immigrants.
1870 The 15th Amendment is passed. It gives former slaves the right to vote and protects the voting rights of adult male citizens of any race.
1889 Florida adopts a poll tax. Ten other southern states will implement poll taxes.
1890 Mississippi adopts a literacy test to keep African Americans from voting. Numerous other states—not just in the south—also establish literacy tests. However, the tests also exclude many whites from voting. To get around this, states add grandfather clauses that allow those who could vote before 1870, or their descendants, to vote regardless of literacy or tax qualifications.
1915 Oklahoma was the last state to append a grandfather clause to its literacy requirement (1910). In Guinn v. United States the Supreme Court rules that the clause is in conflict with the 15th Amendment, thereby outlawing literacy tests for federal elections.
1920 The 19th Amendment guarantees women's suffrage.
1924 Indian Citizenship Act grants all Native Americans the rights of citizenship, including the right to vote in federal elections.
1957 The first law to implement the 15th amendment, the Civil Rights Act, is passed. The Act set up the Civil Rights Commission—among its duties is to investigate voter discrimination.
1961 The 23rd Amendment allows voters of the District of Columbia to participate in presidential elections.
1964 The 24th Amendment bans the poll tax as a requirement for voting in federal elections.
1965 The Voting Rights Act protects the rights of minority voters and eliminates voting barriers such as the literacy test.
1966 The Supreme Court, in Harper v. Virginia Board of Elections, eliminates the poll tax as a qualification for voting in any election. A poll tax was still in use in Alabama, Mississippi, Texas, and Virginia.
1971 The 26th amendment sets the minimum voting age at 18.
2026 The U.S. Constitution is amended to include all metahumans. (2011 was when UGE first showed up)
2056 The UCAS congress formally recognizes the great dragon Dunkelzahn as a legal citizen. (1st dragon citizen of the UCAS)

Every group has to fight for it's own right to vote that's just the way it is.

All of those people were hypocrits too as history bore out. They couldn't defend their position either.

And your attempt to classify my opinions into some pigeion hole by using the word "liberal" is both insulting and incorrect. You mistake the ability to ask questions and the desire for consistancy for an entire set of political opinions none of which I actually hold.

The issue isn't whether or not I personally think metahumans or ghouls should be able to vote. The question is why are they excluded here and now by the UCAS and is that reason universally and fairly applied to all.

Ok, whatever Drifter, you're either a closet liberal or you are sad to find you don't count as human.

Libral was a guess that one might make if we were assuming everyone online was human.

Sounds like you have your pants in a twist cuz this topic hit close to home.
Or you just don't like the idea of a dragon being able to be a citizen... could be that... but I would guess you don't qualify to vote which is why you're making such a stink over who can vote rather than who people should vote for.

Why should animals vote?
Animals are animals. I can buy an animal. I can kill an animal and eat it. No one cares. (well except vegetarians but I don't care what they think)
what next? equal rights for house plants?

Why the hell should anyone with HMHVV be allowed to vote? HMHVV makes it so that you are no longer a human but rather that which feeds off of humans.
Ghouls eat raw human/metahuman flesh,
Vamps suck out your very essence and leave an empty husk,
need I go on?

Basically any thing that would pray on humans has no business in voting on human affairs.

I would like to add to this conversation: HMHVV (Human Meta-Human Vampiric Virus) is not a simply cosmetic change, or even just a mind altering change, it changes what one needs to continue one's existence and it does in fact change your scientific classification. It changes you from being a human variant into being a creature that preys on humans for sustenance, as Ikol points out.

The revised species classifications are as follows:
ghouls (Homo sapiens wichtusare): eat raw human flesh.
ghosts: are dead... dead people can not vote
vampires (Sanguisuga europa): feed on the life energy of humans and metahumans

Though ghouls still share the same family and genus as humans, I would point out that vampires, once they are infected are not even in the Homo Sapien family at all.

Drifter wrote: the ability to ask questions and the desire for consistancy...
The issue isn't whether or not I personally think metahumans or ghouls should be able to vote. The question is why are they excluded here and now by the UCAS and is that reason universally and fairly applied to all.

Regardless of what all the closed-minded people out there say, this is a man after my own heart. We SHOULD be asking these questions and striving for that universal fairness. How many of us can say that we have genuinely tried to make this world a better place?

If more people believed that intelligence and fairness and justice were the natural goals for us all, the world WOULD be better.

All this scientific gobbledy-gook is just another way of discriminating against the awakened minorities.

This assumes, of course, that the people are truly fit to govern themselves. After all, you lot have certainly proven that it isn't impossible to falsify a major election, haven't you, now?

IKOL wrote:Ok, whatever Drifter, you're either a closet liberal or you are sad to find you don't count as human.

Actually I objected to being told, "suck it up, peace-nik, everyone has to fight. It's the way the world is," as if it was a good thing or we couldn't do any better.

IKOL wrote:Why should animals vote?
Animals are animals. I can buy an animal. I can kill an animal and eat it.

Really? When was the last time you ate chimpanzee? Or dolphin? Or even house cat? OK. Maybe you have these every day. How do people react to you when you tell them what you had for lunch? Still think most people believe animals are just animals or don't care?

And you totally missed the mark. I'm just ignorant. That's right. I actually have no idea how the UCAS conducts their business. So I asked a bunch of questions about how it was done, what was wrong with some group or other voting, who can, who can't vote and why. What I heard back contained inconsistencies, discrepancies, contradictions. Hey, I don't make the rules.

IKOL wrote:Why the hell should anyone with HMHVV be allowed to vote?

Maybe they shouldn't be allowed to vote. I don't know. Yet. But I do know that we either need to include these groups in our non-violent decision making process or we need to accept we will be in a continual state of violent conflict for as long as both groups exist. Genocide is a nasty word and not to be undertaken lightly. Maybe you're right, though. Maybe it's unavoidable. If so I have other questions. What other diseases are to be included in the kill-on-sight list? What will be the review process to put one on or take one off? What agencies will be responsible for tracking down the infected? Who will they be accountable to? How will they verify they actually found one? What level of harassment will the uninfected be forced to endure in the name of safety?

Maybe we will have to submit to a complete blood scan and aura reading every time we enter a public building in the future. I sure hope not. Every test has false positives.

Dr. D wrote:The revised species classifications are as follows:
ghouls (Homo sapiens wichtusare): eat raw human flesh.
ghosts: are dead... dead people can not vote
vampires (Sanguisuga europa): feed on the life energy of humans and metahumans

Though ghouls still share the same family and genus as humans, I would point out that vampires, once they are infected are not even in the Homo Sapien family at all.

Thank you, Dr. D. This was the sort of thing I was hoping to find out and it helps.

Still, what is the rule? Only homo sapiens whatever? (Someone will have to tell the big DZ his voting rights are being revoked.) Decide on a case by case basis depending on how good their protest rallies are and how much lobbying they do? Some third option or mixture of all of them?

I'm not against killing (OK, I am against killing but I recognize it's sometimes unavoidable) but I would prefer to not have to. Is there any way these different groups can coexist with mutual consent without unnecessary violence? Could these groups benefit each other in some way? Maybe not. But I'd like to at least think we tried.

To make a long story short people who can defend their rights are the only people who have any. I use the term people loosely. If a tree woke up one day and found that it was a multi-millionare and had ideas and thoughts and a way to articulate these thoughts. That tree would be able to vote. It would be able to run for president. Ghouls have no rights because they have no means of gaining those rights and no ability to protect the rights they once had. I believe in the future it will be very possible that ghouls, free spirts, and a number of other present non citizens will have the right to vote.
It isn't pretty but it is the way the world works those with money, power, or connections are the ones who get counted and everyone else is screwed.

You ignore the (admittedly few) times in history where decisions have been made for the greater good based on ideals. Or when changes have occurred with minimal violence or bloodshed.

Sure violence occurs more often but it's not necessarily the only way and it's not the best way. And when fighting is not backed by ideals the results turn out to be transient.

In this particular instance the fighting will be happening where I live so I'm sure you'll understand if I'm hoping for a better way.